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Writing and Translation (?)

Re: Writing and Translation (?)

Postby soulcatapult » Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:29 am

blitzen13 wrote:You know, Indinera literally asked for feedback on the game in another thread, so he (and you) can't really complain when people tell him what they think. This is exactly why people are so hesitant to say anything negative here, because they get jumped all over when they do. Personally, I'm a grown-up, I can take it. But it does make me less likely to purchase the next games in the series if I feel like my opinions are not welcome.

For context, I responded out of sheer outrage for what this is doing to Indinera. You may not see it in his public posts, but this has truly gotten to him and that really bothered me. It may affect (or annul) his work going forward. Is that what everyone wants? For him to just give up and never create anything ever again, just so he doesn't offend anyone?

He cannot compromise his artistic vision. No self-respecting artist would, only the panderers. And they only do it for money, anyway. They couldn't care less about creative freedom. Indinera does what he does because he's passionate about it, it feeds his will to live. It's his reason for going on.

Would you people really be so selfish as to rob him of that?
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Re: Writing and Translation (?)

Postby Indinera » Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:52 am

and never create anything ever again


I'm not quite there yet.

But it's true any game of mine will happen the way I see it - or won't happen at all.
Obviously outside parameters such as popularity have an effect and LS, just like any other game, is not immune to that effect. Hence why I never quite understood what the OP wanted to achieve with his post. Indeed I would expect any true supporter of the series to, at the very least, show some level of measure and balance in their statement. I didn't see any of that here.
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Re: Writing and Translation (?)

Postby lilac123 » Sun Apr 30, 2023 9:32 pm

Sooo, someone personally attacks/belittles someone else ( someone who isn't even around to defend herself and a core member of the community for over a decade, to boot ), a behavior that doesn't fly even on the most basic, half assed forums and Indinera doesn't intervene. Zero graciousness, gratitude or professionalism. Bravo!

Crazed rants against people who dared stop liking Indinera's games, for whatever reason, or had the nerve to *gasp* voice their negative criticism about aspects of the game and Indinera silently reinforcing that behavior aside, the most disturbing thing for me is that nobody seems bothered by all that or speaks up.

NOTE: The above are simple facts, plainly visible for all ( who want ) to see, so i wont indulge anyone and get into a debate'. Sorry. ;)

The icing on the cake was this:
aldorlea newsletter email April 8:
blah blah...
FORUM
https://aldorlea.org/officialsite/phpBB ... .php?f=227
( standard forum mention and link in all aldorlea emails )
aldorlea newsletter email April 28:
blah blah blah.. blah...
Also, join our Discord if you need help with the game or just want to chat with the community!
https://discord.gg/pSVd3fAxgM
no mention of the forum whatsoever.
So, what gives?
After 3 weeks you gathered a satisfying number of worshippers on discord and suddenly the forum plebs became worthless and not hugely interesting to you?
Are you trying to shut down the forums?
Any particular reason you're trying to divert people's attention from the forum?

Anyway, though it probably won't be hugely interesting to you, let me tell you that you have lost a paying customer. Good job! +::clap
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Re: Writing and Translation (?)

Postby Cassiopeia » Mon May 01, 2023 5:57 pm

@lilac123 – Thanks for speaking up for me, I appreciate it. I was told that there have been hateful comments towards my post and I purposely didn’t come to see for myself.
I was also told about your post though and that’s why I DID come to see for myself.
I read that other post as well now, but it doesn’t bother me nearly as much as it would have in the past because that person just clearly did not understand what I was trying to say at the end of my post. That’s fine.
What bothers me more is being told that my opinion is worthless and not hugely interesting.

@Indy – You’ve known my opinions about certain things for a long time.
You know as much as I do that there’s a LOT of things that we disagree on. But in the past I always felt like we both considered each other’s point of view legitimate. We had interesting discussions that made clear that we won’t ever agree, but that wasn’t even the point. We both voiced our opinions and it was fine.
And now my opinion is worthless?
Trust me, I don’t have to play to know that I dislike the things that I mentioned. I won’t like now what I totally didn’t like before. There are things that have been running through the last games like a golden thread and from all I’ve seen when browsing through the topics it was clear that those things reappear in LS.
I never said that it’s a bad game. THIS is something that clearly can’t be said without even playing. I’m sure there are things about it that I would like and even love. It’s just a matter of what weighs more, and I think that’s something that should be up to everyone’s own perception.
Also, all the worshipping before the release, where people hadn’t played a minute of the game either – was that worthless too?
I think the point is more that I stepped hard on your toes with my post. I understand that, I really do. As I said in my previous post – I’m well aware that a lot of work went into that game.
But no matter how hard you work, you can’t ever please everyone. And you don’t have to. I still firmly believe though that everyone should be allowed to voice their opinion without being harassed. Or told that said opinion is worthless.

Also, you say:
I would expect any true supporter of the series to, at the very least, show some level of measure and balance in their statement.

First of all – what is a true supporter? Someone who will approve of anything and everything, no matter what, just because it’s you who made it or because it’s part of the Laxius series?
I’m sorry, I can’t be like that. And I don’t really see the point why I should. In my life I’ve learned the hard way that this is not a smart thing to do.
Also, quite honestly, how long should a true supporter remain faithful? This game took soooooo many years to become reality. I can’t help but wonder if the world is ever going to see a full final trilogy.
Secondly – I do believe in my statement there was some level of measure and balance. I know, this comment wasn’t towards me, but since you considered my post worthless, I feel like it also addressed me.
And last, but not least – What does true support look like? Again, is it just praising anything and everything? Buying a game without even playing the demo? Things like that?
That was never my style, but I think I supported you quite a bit in the past. In several ways, with things that no one here even knows about. You do though – unless you have forgotten.
Consider my criticism support as well because it’s honest and always has been.
You say you love feedback. But that's not what you convey. I can't remember ever seeing you respond to not so positive feedback in a way that made me think you took it seriously. You only ever contradicted. Tried to convince people (me and others too) that they see things the wrong way and why.
It's not about right or wrong though. It's about your players being different. Again, you can't please everyone. But it's a mistake to only listen to praise, even when the game, according to the latest newsletter, was/is a huge success. In the long run there might not be enough people left to praise.
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Re: Writing and Translation (?)

Postby Indinera » Mon May 01, 2023 6:08 pm

And now my opinion is worthless?


Depends. If you don't bother playing the game, I'd say yes, it is just as I said (especially the "not hugely interesting", for obvious reasons).
If you play it, I'd like to hear it.
However your opinion about artworks in general is one I've known for years. There is no need to tell me each time.
If that bothers you to the point you can't enjoy the game, pick ones with arts you find more appropriate.

As for what you expect to be in LS in spite of not playing it - well, it's more or less what was always there (in this series, that is). I'm not trying to sell this game for what it is not. The content you expect will surely be there and it was already there in past incarnations. I'm making content true to the series, for better and for worse.

First of all – what is a true supporter?


Easy. Someone who's caring enough not to damage a launch. Someone who can show balance in their words and avoid big ones such as "worst this" or "worst that" (or even "ugly", to be honest - very harsh statement). And of course, someone who doesn't tell lies (my main gripe from the start).

I would be happy if you gave a fair chance to games that fit your preferences, and just avoid those who don't. I'm making very different games in style but I'm not gonna change a 20-year old series like Laxius. It is how it is.
But games like Night of the Stars, Odessa or the Gemelle ones like When the Light Dies are immensely different from Laxius, and they are worth trying for people who enjoy less polarising content.
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Re: Writing and Translation (?)

Postby lilac123 » Mon May 01, 2023 6:33 pm

No problem, someone had to call out, not just the bully, but mainly the person who makes the bullying possible.

Cassiopeia wrote:Also, all the worshipping before the release, where people hadn’t played a minute of the game either – was that worthless too?


+::lol +::lol +::lol Preach it!
I wanted to ask the same thing, but i thought it's not worth it to bother any more than i did.
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Re: Writing and Translation (?)

Postby soulcatapult » Mon May 01, 2023 6:36 pm

lilac123 wrote:No problem, someone had to call out, not just the bully, but mainly the person who makes the bullying possible.

I'm no bully. I was only stating facts, and standing up for Indinera because it bothered me to see him so demoralized.
Otherwise, I don't care. But I had to say something because I didn't want him to give up doing what he loves, or being an inspiration to others -- including myself.
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Re: Writing and Translation (?)

Postby Indinera » Mon May 01, 2023 6:39 pm

I agree. There is no bully.
If anything, I'm the bullied one, in particular when factually false things and obviously harsh words are said about (and against) my work.

I'd like to add:

all the worshipping before the release


I didn't see much of that. There was expectations, sure. Based on how the previous games were.
And there is nothing wrong, or special, or worthless about that.
In which world are positivity and encouragements a bad thing?
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Re: Writing and Translation (?)

Postby D-Squall » Mon May 01, 2023 9:17 pm

Indinera wrote:I agree. There is no bully.


Okay, there was a few bullies here. And not just here, but on discord too and I won't name them because they know perfectly well their behavior here and on discord, and although they try to deny, they are indeed bullies and it's a fact, not just a feeling. Each time I feel like I didn't liked something I was always harassed and my opinion was dimnished by some people. And there were always some passive aggressive comments which made my statements look and sound stupid (they weren't) when I was just voicing a feature that I didn't liked. And I'm not only talking about the Wendie and Sarah bickering, there were few times in discord that I feel that I couldn't voice my opinions because an army of people would come to me and make me feel bad for voicing something.

Whenever those people would come at me, I would just stop posting in order to not enlarge the discussion, but I'm just saying this here because when I make criticism, I try to be very fair and not a mindless troll like thoese dumb*sses from Steam. And as I said on my previous post, I don't mind that people doesn't agree with me, it's just the way they don't agree.
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Re: Writing and Translation (?)

Postby lilac123 » Mon May 01, 2023 10:13 pm

D-Squall wrote:
Indinera wrote:I agree. There is no bully.


Okay, there was a few bullies here. And not just here, but on discord too and I won't name them because they know perfectly well their behavior here and on discord, and although they try to deny, they are indeed bullies and it's a fact, not just a feeling. Each time I feel like I didn't liked something I was always harassed and my opinion was dimnished by some people. And there were always some passive aggressive comments which made my statements look and sound stupid (they weren't) when I was just voicing a feature that I didn't liked. And I'm not only talking about the Wendie and Sarah bickering, there were few times in discord that I feel that I couldn't voice my opinions because an army of people would come to me and make me feel bad for voicing something.

Whenever those people would come at me, I would just stop posting in order to not enlarge the discussion, but I'm just saying this here because when I make criticism, I try to be very fair and not a mindless troll like thoese dumb*sses from Steam. And as I said on my previous post, I don't mind that people doesn't agree with me, it's just the way they don't agree.


Come on D-Squall!! You know "there is no bully" !! Also, "the cake is a lie"!! I mean, the whole thing is starting to get comical!! +::biggrin +::biggrin
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Re: Writing and Translation (?)

Postby soulcatapult » Mon May 01, 2023 10:39 pm

lilac123 wrote:Come on D-Squall!! You know "there is no bully" !! Also, "the cake is a lie"!! I mean, the whole thing is starting to get comical!! +::biggrin +::biggrin

The discussion would've been done and over with days ago, but you seem intent on keeping it alive.
You've also been extremely rude to people like Seraphus who only wanted to help.
Lastly, your gross overuse of emoticons lends a trollish angle to your posts all its own.

I was only taking a stand for artistic integrity. And I wouldn't even have been compelled to do that if I hadn't seen that this whole discourse was so deeply affecting Indinera. How many times do I have to reiterate this?

Just let it die already. Talk about beating a dead horse.
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Re: Writing and Translation (?)

Postby Indinera » Tue May 02, 2023 4:34 am

Okay, there was a few bullies here.


Yeah not just one then indeed.
It's 'comical' some failed to notice it.
Selective eyesight, eh?

I'm closing the show now.
Enough is enough and this is going nowhere.
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