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Writing and Translation (?)

Re: Writing and Translation (?)

Postby kartacha » Mon Apr 24, 2023 7:15 am

Tomas wrote:2. The LS demo is long enough (as far as I know) to see more then enough of the dialogues.


It is amazing that there is a demo for that reason specifically. I love demos, playing tons of them even today. Skipped games over what I saw in the demos - like "Wandering Sword", "Live A Live" or "She Dreams Elsewhere". However, I never even played the demo of Laxius Soul. Skipping a long waited entry in one of my favourite video game series has never been an option in the first place.
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Re: Writing and Translation (?)

Postby Indinera » Mon Apr 24, 2023 7:22 am

Skipping a long waited entry in one of my favourite video game series has never been an option in the first place.


That's why I don't get your (original) opinion.
I think this is easily the best entry in the series, along with LP3.
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Re: Writing and Translation (?)

Postby Seraphus » Mon Apr 24, 2023 8:33 am

I think people sort of "miss" that Sarah has always truly hated Wendie, it's never been small to begin with.
Now imagine living together with someone you really hate.
For years.
I'd go insane too lol.
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Re: Writing and Translation (?)

Postby Indinera » Mon Apr 24, 2023 8:49 am

Seraphus wrote:I think people sort of "miss" that Sarah has always truly hated Wendie, it's never been small to begin with.
Now imagine living together with someone you really hate.
For years.
I'd go insane too lol.


She has an inferiority complex.
But people also sort of "miss" that this is but a tiny, minuscule part of the entire written content of the game. Granted, you get most of it early on, from the get-go. But if you look at the greater picture, the moment the main quest really kicks in, this vastly gets out of the spotlight.
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Re: Writing and Translation (?)

Postby D-Squall » Mon Apr 24, 2023 12:24 pm

I'm just posting this last comment here since I'm not replying this topic any longer. There is always an passive agressive comment towards anyone who shows something that he/she didn't like or didn't enjoyed, it seems that I have to love everything here. And these passive agressive comments has been going by months now here and on discord and comes from other members, not from Indinera (just to be very clear).

And just to be clear too, I don't mind that people disagree with me and such but the comments that disagree always diminishes the opinions of those who didn't enjoy something or agree with some features and dialogues, it's really a pity of what this community has become (and dicord too). I could develop my thoughts on how things changed unrealisticly in Wendie and Sarah's relationship, but for what reason? I'm gonna be silenced again by passive agressive comments from some people.

Having said that, Indy. I like Laxius Soul and I'm almost 40 hours in it. It's a very long game. +::clap
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Re: Writing and Translation (?)

Postby Indinera » Mon Apr 24, 2023 12:29 pm

not from Indinera (just to be very clear)


Thanks. Personally I will only complain when it's rude and/or a flat-out lie.

Having said that, Indy. I like Laxius Soul and I'm almost 40 hours in it. It's a very long game.


I'm glad to hear +::clap
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Re: Writing and Translation (?)

Postby lilac123 » Mon Apr 24, 2023 3:12 pm

D-Squall wrote:I'm just posting this last comment here since I'm not replying this topic any longer. There is always an passive agressive comment towards anyone who shows something that he/she didn't like or didn't enjoyed, it seems that I have to love everything here. And these passive agressive comments has been going by months now here and on discord and comes from other members, not from Indinera (just to be very clear).

And just to be clear too, I don't mind that people disagree with me and such but the comments that disagree always diminishes the opinions of those who didn't enjoy something or agree with some features and dialogues, it's really a pity of what this community has become (and dicord too). I could develop my thoughts on how things changed unrealisticly in Wendie and Sarah's relationship, but for what reason? I'm gonna be silenced again by passive agressive comments from some people.

Having said that, Indy. I like Laxius Soul and I'm almost 40 hours in it. It's a very long game. +::clap


Nooo, don't be silenced by, what you call passive aggressive, what i call cute/polite bullying. It's refreshing seeing one of the old members not being a blind fanboy and actually having an opinion and offering criticism. I'm sure there are a lot of people who are interested in your opinion, it's just that, as is always the case, the fanboys/fangirls are always the loudest.
I also miss the older vibe of the forum, I'm a member since 2010, and though i was never an active member, i have always enjoyed reading through the topics. +::music

As far as the actual topic is concerned, i personally don't care for the writing all that much ( same with some other aldorlea games ) but that doesn't stop me from spending my precious money, enjoying the game and looking forward to the next laxius part.
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Re: Writing and Translation (?)

Postby Cassiopeia » Mon Apr 24, 2023 8:09 pm

I haven't been here in quite a while and I was negotiating with myself if I should just stay out of this conversation. But I guess this game is the biggest deal in years - and I'm not talking about playtime. We've been waiting for this game for over a decade, which means everyone had plenty of time to build up lots of expectations. Some people will be excited, others disappointed. I think that's only natural and everyone should be allowed to voice their opinion.
I personally can't see a "troll comment" in the initial post at all. I know from experience how much of an impact on my mood a game can have and I guess I've been very open about it here in the past. I received the same reactions as kartacha did. People would take everything I said apart, tell me in 100 ways why I'm wrong and unsupportive and things like that. It's the main reason I stayed away from here for so long.
I think trolling is something very different. I've seen trolls a lot on Steam where people would talk so low about games simply because they were RPG Maker games. They hadn't even played any of them but spread their hateful venom all over the forums there. That's trolling. In kartacha's post I only saw an opinion.

Well, here is mine - and I dare to have one even though I haven't been playing so far.
I have always been a huge fan of the LF series. The more time passed though the more I kept wondering if any new game could ever relive that old spirit.
When FoH came out and I played with the LF team, I was soooooo annoyed with the conversation among the characters. It was hateful, disrespectful and it just didn't feel right. They had been through so much together, they have gone through great development through their adventures. They grew as persons, their personalities changed for the better. It just didn't feel right at all to me seeing them interact in such a way all of a sudden.
Now in LS it's the same apparently, which I kind of expected but I was still hoping it wouldn't be.
People say time has passed and that they have matured. I just wonder, how is it more mature to treat other people disrespectful - especially after being through so much together. Being more mature to me would mean the complete opposite.
The other thing that has kept me from playing so far is this:
NB(2) : mature dialogues, revealing outfits. Play only if this doesn't bother you.

I HATE the way that women are being depicted in the artworks yet again. Yveen .... I mean, how much more ridiculous can it get?
Yes, it bothers me. A lot. And Indy, your sentence keeps me from playing way more than kartacha's post ever could.
I simply truly don't understand why it always has to be that way now.
Thinking back about MM, those artworks were gorgeous and had none of this ugliness.
I know, I've brought this up several times before and I've been ripped apart for it. I'm saying it again anyway because it has to be pointed out.
There are other reasons too for not playing. Things that I have also disliked about the last games I've played but I guess this post is long enough now.

Having said all that, I just want to add that I'm very aware that a lot of work went into this game. I don't want to belittle it at all or offend you, Indy.
I've just come to realize that your games have developed in a direction that no longer meets my taste. It makes me sad because I used to love so many games so much and they have given me endless hours of fun and excitement. But in the last few games this fun was very much spoiled by lots of anger and frustration.
All I want to say, it's certainly great when people share their excitement here. But people, please let those that have a different experience say so as well without harassing them.
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Re: Writing and Translation (?)

Postby lilac123 » Mon Apr 24, 2023 11:00 pm

Cassiopeia wrote:I haven't been here in quite a while and I was negotiating with myself if I should just stay out of this conversation. But I guess this game is the biggest deal in years - and I'm not talking about playtime. We've been waiting for this game for over a decade, which means everyone had plenty of time to build up lots of expectations. Some people will be excited, others disappointed. I think that's only natural and everyone should be allowed to voice their opinion.
I personally can't see a "troll comment" in the initial post at all. I know from experience how much of an impact on my mood a game can have and I guess I've been very open about it here in the past. I received the same reactions as kartacha did. People would take everything I said apart, tell me in 100 ways why I'm wrong and unsupportive and things like that. It's the main reason I stayed away from here for so long.
I think trolling is something very different. I've seen trolls a lot on Steam where people would talk so low about games simply because they were RPG Maker games. They hadn't even played any of them but spread their hateful venom all over the forums there. That's trolling. In kartacha's post I only saw an opinion.

Well, here is mine - and I dare to have one even though I haven't been playing so far.
I have always been a huge fan of the LF series. The more time passed though the more I kept wondering if any new game could ever relive that old spirit.
When FoH came out and I played with the LF team, I was soooooo annoyed with the conversation among the characters. It was hateful, disrespectful and it just didn't feel right. They had been through so much together, they have gone through great development through their adventures. They grew as persons, their personalities changed for the better. It just didn't feel right at all to me seeing them interact in such a way all of a sudden.
Now in LS it's the same apparently, which I kind of expected but I was still hoping it wouldn't be.
People say time has passed and that they have matured. I just wonder, how is it more mature to treat other people disrespectful - especially after being through so much together. Being more mature to me would mean the complete opposite.
The other thing that has kept me from playing so far is this:
NB(2) : mature dialogues, revealing outfits. Play only if this doesn't bother you.

I HATE the way that women are being depicted in the artworks yet again. Yveen .... I mean, how much more ridiculous can it get?
Yes, it bothers me. A lot. And Indy, your sentence keeps me from playing way more than kartacha's post ever could.
I simply truly don't understand why it always has to be that way now.
Thinking back about MM, those artworks were gorgeous and had none of this ugliness.
I know, I've brought this up several times before and I've been ripped apart for it. I'm saying it again anyway because it has to be pointed out.
There are other reasons too for not playing. Things that I have also disliked about the last games I've played but I guess this post is long enough now.

Having said all that, I just want to add that I'm very aware that a lot of work went into this game. I don't want to belittle it at all or offend you, Indy.
I've just come to realize that your games have developed in a direction that no longer meets my taste. It makes me sad because I used to love so many games so much and they have given me endless hours of fun and excitement. But in the last few games this fun was very much spoiled by lots of anger and frustration.
All I want to say, it's certainly great when people share their excitement here. But people, please let those that have a different experience say so as well without harassing them.


Hello. I totally understand your feelings. I've had the "sexism in video games" discussion on another forum and it wasn't a pleasant experience. When i first saw the character models i was...repulsed. That being said, i'm very aware that, unfortunately, cute female characters with huge jugs ( like our friend Coryool says +::Annoyed ) is what sells.
I simply try not to take the whole thing seriously and not let it bother me ( that much ) because, nonetheless, the game is fun. Have you given the demo a try?
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Re: Writing and Translation (?)

Postby blitzen13 » Tue Apr 25, 2023 12:03 am

FWIW, I also really disliked the constant bickering between Sarah and Wendala in the beginning of the game. It was WAY over the top, and very unpleasant to read. Sarah has always been an airhead, but now she is a nasty, vicious airhead. Wendala is better, but I probably only think that because I like her more, and she has a brain in her head. She was actually quite nasty as well, and the whole slave thing is way overdone IMO. I agree with some of the other comments that the writing of the characters is not as good as previous games--everyone seems very one-dimensional, especially Sarah and Coryool (he likes beer, we get it). I'm hoping that will improve as the game goes on (I'm about 40 hours in).

There are also a few other gameplay issues that are making me enjoy the game less than I had hoped to, but those are more about personal preferences so I won't get into them here. I do appreciate the amount of work that has gone into the game, and I'll probably even play through a second time since I already seem to have missed a bunch of stuff. Anyway, I'm not trying to sh*t on anyone here. I have bought and played almost all of Indy's games over the years, and hope to continue to do so.
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Re: Writing and Translation (?)

Postby soulcatapult » Wed Apr 26, 2023 10:46 pm

Where. To. Begin.

Okay, I'm not going to mention anyone by name, though my comments will likely make it evident who/what I'm addressing. But as a fellow creator, I stand for artistic integrity above all else. My own style is very different from Indinera's, but I respect him all the same.

Just walking around the first forest area, it's abundantly clear that painstaking effort went into the creation of this game, down to the littlest things. Not only was the story written with heart and soul, but the world lovingly crafted in like manner. Random and Sarah's little portrait on the wall was SO cute. Did you see that? That's love, right there! For the clueless, I'm not talking about the characters. I'm talking about the love that Indinera very evidently poured into his creation.

Some people, when making these games, just splash random landforms onto the "canvas" (tileset) and it's totally artless at best; insulting at worst. Indinera is another breed, and it shows. It also completely breaks my heart to see him so demoralized by the backlash he's received. Not just anyone can do what he does; you need talent, and that talent is, more often than not, something you must be born with. Sure, it can be "taught," but even "professional experience" will never shine brighter than the fervor of natural-born, innate artistic talent. Which Indinera has.

Indinera is a human being. He is not a god. You may have come to see him that way based on his past work, but he is only human. Also, your expectations are your own. Just because you had unjustly high and unrealistic expectations that failed to be met, is not Indinera's problem.

I'm going to touch on the "sexism" allegations. Oh, yes I am. First and foremost: feminism won. You won. Look at mainstream media: feminism emerged victorious in the culture war. There you have it. Companies like Sony now strictly enforce regulations on that front. However, Indinera is an independent artist, and can do whatever the *bleep* he wants. He should not be forced to abide by you or anyone else's morality, especially in his art. Art is the free expression of the soul. You cannot contain it. An artist cannot be shackled. This goes for fine art, illustration/character design, literature and the works. It is a burning fire inside the creative soul that must be unleashed. And you cannot attempt to suppress it, or else the spirit dies.

Furthermore, to literally, actually call the female form "ugly" unintentionally reveals many things about yourself, not the least of which being a repressed (and therefore projected) self-loathing. I think it was the medieval "Council of Trent" that went around and put leaves on nude statues or something like that? Do you not see how utterly absurd that is? It's art, for heaven's sake. Like I said, mainstream culture, including much of the gaming industry now caters to feminist sensibilities, so you have no shortage of other options if Indinera's work so deeply offends you.

On to the dialogue. I see absolutely nothing wrong with it so far. It's also not badly written at all. In fact, it's so adept that I genuinely felt human empathy for Wendala during the bath scene, which I'm pretty sure was Indinera's intention. Of the bickering... um, are you kidding me? Are you seriously telling me that it... somehow adversely impacted your mood? Just that little bit of squabbling, really? Really? You say it was nasty, even? What!? Those little jabs Wendala threw at Sarah were hilarious, actually! Have you never encountered a disagreement/tension between two human beings in your life? Ever?

TL;DR - Indinera is an artist, making his art, and expressing himself. He is hurting absolutely no one. Sarah and Yveen's breasts are not deadly weapons capable of inflicting any actual harm in the slightest. If you don't like it, just leave him alone.
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Re: Writing and Translation (?)

Postby blitzen13 » Thu Apr 27, 2023 3:38 am

You know, Indinera literally asked for feedback on the game in another thread, so he (and you) can't really complain when people tell him what they think. This is exactly why people are so hesitant to say anything negative here, because they get jumped all over when they do. Personally, I'm a grown-up, I can take it. But it does make me less likely to purchase the next games in the series if I feel like my opinions are not welcome.

Oh, and as for the art? I mostly like it it a lot, even with all the enormous boobs +:::|. I just wish I didn't have to see it Every. Single. Time I find a secret room. It's overkill.

Just IMO as always.
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Re: Writing and Translation (?)

Postby Indinera » Thu Apr 27, 2023 3:57 am

Only Yveen has 'enormous' boobs, and she's been like that for 22 years since Laxius Power.
Sarah, Luci, some other characters have completely normal ones. All of the art looks absolutely gorgeous and is the best this series has ever had.

I love feedback but I can't stand lies.
Half of the OP's 'feedback' was that, so the complaints here are 100% legit.
I also prefer it when people give feedback after experiencing a sizeable part of the actual game. Feedback given based on general impressions is worthless, feedback based on early ones not hugely interesting to me, as the game is so much more than just its beginning or demo.
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Re: Writing and Translation (?)

Postby diroslav » Thu Apr 27, 2023 4:30 am

Well, I came here just to give my opinion on positive and negative points about what was commented, but first, I went to read the posts and one in particular made me uncomfortable.

soulcatapult wrote:
I'm going to touch on the "sexism" allegations. Oh, yes I am. First and foremost: feminism won. You won. Look at mainstream media: feminism emerged victorious in the culture war. There you have it. Companies like Sony now strictly enforce regulations on that front. However, Indinera is an independent artist, and can do whatever the *bleep* he wants. He should not be forced to abide by you or anyone else's morality, especially in his art. Art is the free expression of the soul. You cannot contain it. An artist cannot be shackled. This goes for fine art, illustration/character design, literature and the works. It is a burning fire inside the creative soul that must be unleashed. And you cannot attempt to suppress it, or else the spirit dies.

Furthermore, to literally, actually call the female form "ugly" unintentionally reveals many things about yourself, not the least of which being a repressed (and therefore projected) self-loathing. I think it was the medieval "Council of Trent" that went around and put leaves on nude statues or something like that? Do you not see how utterly absurd that is? It's art, for heaven's sake. Like I said, mainstream culture, including much of the gaming industry now caters to feminist sensibilities, so you have no shortage of other options if Indinera's work so deeply offends you.


+::tired +::tired +::tired +::tired +::tired +::tired
I have no words to express how disturbing this comment is. Unfortunately this is a reflection of how the gamer community in general still needs to evolve a lot, but in short: no, you can't use the excuse that "this is art" to walk over criticism like this. People, especially women, have every right to feel uncomfortable about this. And I'm not even saying that Indy agrees with that kind of thinking. If he wants to show half-naked women he can, but from the moment he is opening his art to the world (mainly as a product) he is open to public scrutiny.
You seemed very uncomfortable with this particular topic, and I can only imagine why. +:::|

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

But back to the main subject, I don't agree that the game's intro is the worst, or that the game's writing is bad. I'm not even halfway through yet as work has been taking up so much of my time lately, but I enjoyed having a different feeling when playing Laxius Soul compared to the other trilogies, while still being the characters and story we know. That shows how versatile Indy is, points for him.

My only criticism at the moment is really towards Sarah, but since I haven't finished the game yet, I might change my opinion regarding her development as a character. But it made me extremely uncomfortable how she continues to be, at many times, futile, envious, gratuitously aggressive and childish. I don't see a problem with her still being insecure, but after so much time, and for everything she's been through, I expected a little more maturity, because I can see that in the other characters, but she doesn't seem to evolve.
But that's maybe something personal that I have with her, and Wendie is my favorite character, so I might be biased.

That said, I understand that everyone has their expectations of the game, especially those like me who have been fans of the story since the first trilogy. I just think it's wrong to make accusations that are actually more personal opinions than real issues in the game.
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Re: Writing and Translation (?)

Postby soulcatapult » Thu Apr 27, 2023 4:49 am

diroslav wrote:I have no words to express how disturbing this comment is. Unfortunately this is a reflection of how the gamer community in general still needs to evolve a lot, but in short: no, you can't use the excuse that "this is art" to walk over criticism like this. People, especially women, have every right to feel uncomfortable about this. And I'm not even saying that Indy agrees with that kind of thinking. If he wants to show half-naked women he can, but from the moment he is opening his art to the world (mainly as a product) he is open to public scrutiny.


May I ask what was disturbing about it? Was it because I simply told the sheer, unadulterated truth? Did I hit a nerve because I articulated what is "forbidden" to be spoken, yet intuitively known in the heart of every honest person?

As for the "gamer community," it is what it is, and needn't change according to anyone's whims. As for public scrutiny, just because Indinera receives it doesn't mean he has to abide by it. That's his decision. Artists are tortured enough without the burden of subjective morality. It's not their job to pander to people's sensitivities. Art by nature is transgressive. It challenges social norms and shatters barriers. In many cases, it's shocking and even sometimes appalling. That's just what art is. I'm sure there's many pieces of art, whether painting, sculpture or literature that you do not personally like. That doesn't mean it needs to be redrawn/rewritten according to your tastes, or anyone else's. That's just narcissistic and not fair at all.

You seemed very uncomfortable with this particular topic, and I can only imagine why.

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Actually you said you were the one who was made uncomfortable by what I said. Whatever you perceived in me, I can only assume, is an immense disdain for those with the audacity to believe they can dictate what artists should and shouldn't be able to create.

I already said it. Feminism won the culture. Many shows, movies, and games attest to that. Why does one person refusing to conform and continuing to make what he loves bother you so much? What impact does it really have on the world? Look around you and see.
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