The Book of Shadows

[littlebro]

This sounds bad .... also you guys move fast with the game but I don't get one thing : I am still in chapter 2 and I have level 18 with the majority of my characters - I would say that is close to level 20 - are you telling me I will stay stuck with level 18 for 3 chapters ? That doesn't sound right ... or I assume something happens in the main plot and it fucks up my levels ?

I obviously didn't express myself clearly, because that isn't what I meant to imply at all.

Levels come in the normal way, as you would expect. But Renee joins the party towards the end of Chapter 3 and she is only level 17 when she arrives. Jarvis joins at the beginning of Chapter 5 and he joins at only level 20. There has been a split party for Chapter 4 and you are now back with those who didn't participate in that Chapter. However, they are all around level 30, so there is a big gap between them and the newcomers. Also, both joined the party with only 1250 SP. Renee now has some more as she was around to get EXP for a while, but even with the Learner Bracelet on her she's only at level 20, so doesn't have much. The lack of SP means that Jarvis in particular can't learn any spells at the moment.

Because every scrap of accumulated gear and items is with the other party, all I've got is a paltry sum to replace Alex's who has no gear whatsoever, and make good the lack in Jarvis. I am not best pleased. I wish more devs would bring new members into the party taking an average of the existing members' levels. It's not difficult to do. Jarvis is supposed to be a 'Gladiator' - so why wouldn't he have at least something in every equipment slot?

EDIT
@bgillisp - you posted while I was typing.

[bgillisp]

I obviously didn't express myself clearly, because that isn't what I meant to imply at all.

Levels come in the normal way, as you would expect. But Renee joins the party towards the end of Chapter 3 and she is only level 17 when she arrives. Jarvis joins at the beginning of Chapter 5 and he joins at only level 20. There has been a split party for Chapter 4 and you are now back with those who didn't participate in that Chapter. However, they are all around level 30, so there is a big gap between them and the newcomers. Also, both joined the party with only 1250 SP. Renee now has some more as she was around to get EXP for a while, but even with the Learner Bracelet on her she's only at level 20, so doesn't have much. The lack of SP means that Jarvis in particular can't learn any spells at the moment.

Because every scrap of accumuulated gear and items is with the other party, all I've got is a paltry sum to replace Alex's who has no gear whatsoever, and make good the lack in Jarvis. I am not best pleased. I wish more devs would bring new members into the party taking an average of the existing members' levels. It's not difficult to do. Jarvis is supposed to be a 'Gladiator' - so why wouldn't he have at least something in every equipment slot?

Valid point, but if we did an average level the SP would have to just be there, due to how the engine works as I have to manually assign all skills and make sure it adds up to the proper SP. I could consider it though if more would like to just allocate SP for new characters themselves.

On another note, how did you get to Level 30 in Chapter 3 for the party? Did you do everything before proceeding? I haven't seen anyone higher than 24th in testing hence why I'm curious. As it is, the regions you do assume you'll be 18th - 20th or so due to the party split so you should be ok with just the high levels.

On the plus side, it should still work out because if you are that high level:

Spoiler: show

Do the unicorn farm first. You'll get more gear and money there, and at your level you won't even have to do a battle to get it as long as your average party level is above 23.

Edit: I am open to suggestions on the DB balance though and Chapter 5. If someone has a suggestion for how they'd improve it maybe put it in a spoiler and I'll consider it.

[littlebro]

I still think that there is going to be a problem.
If I have understood correctly, the way you have done it assumes that various things will be done after chapter 5. If they were done like that then Renee and Jarvis will gain the EXP from those areas. However, they have already been done, so that EXP is permanently lost to them, and cannot be made up. That means that soon they will be far behind where you have designed them to be.

The areas that I did that might have been 'too soon' are
The whole of Northpass Mountains.
Old Cave
Dragonblast and the Oasis
Ice Caves
Clearing out Riverdale Mines.

I would prefer to allocate skills myself. I have chosen not to learn all tier one and two skills so that I have the SP to invest early in levels 3 and 4 skills. It has worked out fine so far.

Spoiler: show

Okay, but that means more EXP that Renee and Jarvis won't get because there were no fights.

[Indinera]

Are game updates available yet? If so, then why am I getting a "password blocked" error message from BMT's site?

I can wait for any updates, but I have some free time before stirring Chardonnay this morning, so I thought I'd check.

I don't know, BMT isn't under my control.
Normally the game should be redownloadable... if the problem persists, I'll contact BMT.

[darkange]

Are game updates available yet? If so, then why am I getting a "password blocked" error message from BMT's site?

I can wait for any updates, but I have some free time before stirring Chardonnay this morning, so I thought I'd check.

I don't know, BMT isn't under my control.
Normally the game should be redownloadable... if the problem persists, I'll contact BMT.

so how exactly do we get the new updated version ? ... we just go on our emails where we received the links for the full game in the first place and click on them again ? the new version will be there ?

[bgillisp]

I still think that there is going to be a problem.
If I have understood correctly, the way you have done it assumes that various things will be done after chapter 5. If they were done like that then Renee and Jarvis will gain the EXP from those areas. However, they have already been done, so that EXP is permanently lost to them, and cannot be made up. That means that soon they will be far behind where you have designed them to be.

The areas that I did that might have been 'too soon' are
The whole of Northpass Mountains.
Old Cave
Dragonblast and the Oasis
Ice Caves
Clearing out Riverdale Mines.

I would prefer to allocate skills myself. I have chosen not to learn all tier one and two skills so that I have the SP to invest early in levels 3 and 4 skills. It has worked out fine so far.

Spoiler: show

Okay, but that means more EXP that Renee and Jarvis won't get because there were no fights.

It won't be perfect no matter what I do though, as some like it as is, and some don't. I'll keep feedback in mind and make a decision based on it though once I have more. As it is, their levels were picked to make them the same level as the monsters in Chapter 5, so that they are an equal match for those encounters.

As for the zones, Northpass and Riverdale Mines were the ones you did early compared to my testers. The warnings were meant to stop you from going in there and doing it too soon as no tester survived those zones if they went there before Chapter 5. I could put a roadblock to block it off totally until Chapter 5 if more think that would help, though it won't fix your situation.

[littlebro]

It won't be perfect no matter what I do though, as some like it as is, and some don't.

True. Not possible to please everyone.

As for the zones, Northpass and Riverdale Mines were the ones you did early compared to my testers. The warnings were meant to stop you from going in there and doing it too soon as no tester survived those zones if they went there before Chapter 5. I could put a roadblock to block it off totally until Chapter 5 if more think that would help, though it won't fix your situation.

[Pats self on back] So I beat your testers! I admit it was tough, as I mentioned in posts earlier. Perhaps a compromise and put a roadblock just on the Mines? I have to admit, it was fun going in where I knew I wasn't supposed to be able to survive and to beat the odds.

I'm slightly more relaxed about things now - I had a cancelled meeting, so I've started working my way through Tower of Storms and have picked up some superior gear so, with some switching around, things are much better. Though again I wonder if I'm supposed to be here so soon.

[bgillisp]

[Pats self on back] So I beat your testers! I admit it was tough, as I mentioned in posts earlier. Perhaps a compromise and put a roadblock just on the Mines? I have to admit, it was fun going in where I knew I wasn't supposed to be able to survive and to beat the odds.

I'm slightly more relaxed about things now - I had a cancelled meeting, so I've started working my way through Tower of Storms and have picked up some superior gear so, with some switching around, things are much better. Though again I wonder if I'm supposed to be here so soon.

The Tower of Storms is meant to be a catch up dungeon for Renee and Jarvis (and the reserves if they need it) actually, though some save it until they got the others back. So this was how I balanced it out actually .

Though I did come up with an idea that might work to allow Jarvis get Northpass EXP if you do it too soon. The idea is to have the reserve party tell him the story of it while they wait, and Jarvis trains with them to learn that missing EXP (and maybe I can do something similar with Renee the night you rest in the caves). I'd have to go see how much EXP it is though, and if I can put it into the event. I'll sleep on this idea and if it still sounds good in a few days I'll try to implement it this weekend.

[Indinera]

Are game updates available yet? If so, then why am I getting a "password blocked" error message from BMT's site?

I can wait for any updates, but I have some free time before stirring Chardonnay this morning, so I thought I'd check.

I don't know, BMT isn't under my control.
Normally the game should be redownloadable... if the problem persists, I'll contact BMT.

so how exactly do we get the new updated version ? ... we just go on our emails where we received the links for the full game in the first place and click on them again ? the new version will be there ?

Thats indeed how it should be.

[darkange]

As for the zones, Northpass and Riverdale Mines were the ones you did early compared to my testers. The warnings were meant to stop you from going in there and doing it too soon as no tester survived those zones if they went there before Chapter 5. I could put a roadblock to block it off totally until Chapter 5 if more think that would help, though it won't fix your situation.

Oh man ... you got to find new hardcore testers ... people like me or littlebro lol...
The worms in the mines were a pain the ass on max difficulty indeed but they were still doable - especially after I equipped Liana with the new staff - 3K dmg from that holy spell of 230 strength on those vampiric mushrooms - so good.

[Lady JJ]

I've been watching and reading this discussion about the levels and skill points and whether or not there are going to be opportunities later to level up if all the areas are explored early in the game. I truly don't think that's the case at all. You don't have to grind, but you certainly can if that's your desire.

I went back to an old save at chapter 5. Alex has the highest level (39), with most of the earlier others at 31-33. Jarvis and Renee do lag at 26 and 24 respectively. Jarvis caught up, Renee hasn't. Chapter 9 (due in great part to the training cave) has Alex at 67 and Jarvis at 63 with the others, with the exception of Renee, between 64 and 65. Renee still lags at 55 and I'm not sure there's anything to be done about that. I've had no problem allocating skill points to meet the skill requirements. Once I was able to learn Level 5 skills, like Littlebro, I did start learning them backwards so to speak. I don't feel like there is any imbalance at all between the levels, the available skills, and the strength of the enemies. It even looks like I'll soon have no place to allocate the skill points. Truly, while I can appreciate the dedication and perseverence of Littlebro and Darkange who absolutely push the envelope, for the casual gamer like me, I think the balance of levels and enemies is a definite strength of this game. Not to say that I beat the boss everytime on first encounter. Far from it, but I can learn from the failures and develop a strategy that will eventually succeed.

I love reading Littlebro's and Darkange's posts because I've found through the years, if I can't figure out how to win a battle, one or the other is going to post a strategy that would have never occurred to me. They are definitely hardcore gamers while I am a casual gamer and I do so appreciate their feedback. I just thought I'd give you some feedback from the 'wimpier spectrum' of your players.

@bgillisp: both the rats at Unicorn Farms and the king slime ran away from me. I did get the drops, though, so that was nice coding.

Still loving the game, though I may put Level 5 of the Training Cave on hold for now and return to the main story.

This is definitely one of those rpg's where I really want to finish it because I want to know what happens, but I don't want to finish it because I'm enjoying playing it so much.

[bgillisp]

Oh man ... you got to find new hardcore testers ... people like me or littlebro lol...
The worms in the mines were a pain the ass on max difficulty indeed but they were still doable - especially after I equipped Liana with the new staff - 3K dmg from that holy spell of 230 strength on those vampiric mushrooms - so good.

Yep. Max difficulty as I use a division based damage formula is painful. The monsters will eat you for lunch there.

I've been watching and reading this discussion about the levels and skill points and whether or not there are going to be opportunities later to level up if all the areas are explored early in the game. I truly don't think that's the case at all. You don't have to grind, but you certainly can if that's your desire.

I went back to an old save at chapter 5. Alex has the highest level (39), with most of the earlier others at 31-33. Jarvis and Renee do lag at 26 and 24 respectively. Jarvis caught up, Renee hasn't. Chapter 9 (due in great part to the training cave) has Alex at 67 and Jarvis at 63 with the others, with the exception of Renee, between 64 and 65. Renee still lags at 55 and I'm not sure there's anything to be done about that. I've had no problem allocating skill points to meet the skill requirements. Once I was able to learn Level 5 skills, like Littlebro, I did start learning them backwards so to speak. I don't feel like there is any imbalance at all between the levels, the available skills, and the strength of the enemies. It even looks like I'll soon have no place to allocate the skill points. Truly, while I can appreciate the dedication and perseverence of Littlebro and Darkange who absolutely push the envelope, for the casual gamer like me, I think the balance of levels and enemies is a definite strength of this game. Not to say that I beat the boss everytime on first encounter. Far from it, but I can learn from the failures and develop a strategy that will eventually succeed.

I love reading Littlebro's and Darkange's posts because I've found through the years, if I can't figure out how to win a battle, one or the other is going to post a strategy that would have never occurred to me. They are definitely hardcore gamers while I am a casual gamer and I do so appreciate their feedback. I just thought I'd give you some feedback from the 'wimpier spectrum' of your players.

@bgillisp: both the rats at Unicorn Farms and the king slime ran away from me. I did get the drops, though, so that was nice coding.

Still loving the game, though I may put Level 5 of the Training Cave on hold for now and return to the main story.

This is definitely one of those rpg's where I really want to finish it because I want to know what happens, but I don't want to finish it because I'm enjoying playing it so much.

Glad to hear the feedback. I was aiming for more like what you've noticed where grinding is optional. In fact, those training caves are the area for grinding as all monsters respawn except bosses, so you can go through them again and again if you want to go for level 99. Though if you do go to level 99 you'll have a few levels late with nothing to spend SP on. I figure I'd rather let you get everything before then if you want to just learn every skill instead. Also though if you have nothing to spend SP on now, level 6 Skill and Spell books become available to buy in the last town of the entire game.

BTW, as for Renee she uses a different EXP curve than the others, which is why she is always behind. She has about the same EXP as they do, but she needs more of it to level up. The EXP curves are on the last few pages of the manual if you wish to see it in detail.

Side note: I have no enemies that have a recommended level higher than 75th in this game, so once you cross that you will be powerful enough to make Dragons cry. Ok, at least the baby ones.

Edit: BTW, if you want some challenges for after you beat the game, here are a few, in spoilers:

Spoiler: show

-The main 4 challenge. Alex, Sarah, Cedric, Liana only. Exceptions for when they are not options only.
-The low level challenge. Fight only required fights, run from the rest. I was level 44 in the final battle when I did that, and it is not easy.
-The no skill learn challenge. Learn no skills, only use what the characters start with and what you can learn automatically as rewards. Note this one might be impossible though.
-The No Alex challenge. Use anyone but Alex when you can.
-The max difficulty challenge. Raise the difficulty to max. Though looks like some of you are already doing this one.
-Use no potions ever in the game challenge.
-The Never use the skill or spell books once you find them challenge. What you get automatically in the plot is it.

[darkange]

@Lady JJ thanks for all the compliments and feedback

@bgillisp I am confused about 2 things :
1.) when the NPCs say come back in a week for that or come back in July or another month for that event and so on - that means later in the game in another chapter or that means it would never be available at all until the end ?

2.)

Spoiler: show

when the party gets thrown in jail and the book is taken - Henry says this is the shadowlord book when he looked at it - when did Sarah had time to switch that book with the mathematics book since she said she did it at the crossroads but that can't be possible since Henry recognized it when they were already behind the jail cell ... doesn't really makes sense to me

[bgillisp]

@Lady JJ thanks for all the compliments and feedback

@bgillisp I am confused about 2 things :
1.) when the NPCs say come back in a week for that or come back in July or another month for that event and so on - that means later in the game in another chapter or that means it would never be available at all until the end ?

Come back in a week means next Chapter. If they say soon it just means leave and come back. The exact date you are playing on is found if you buy the Dwarfen Herald, the date will be on the first line of the item description.

2nd response in spoiler:

Spoiler: show

Henry only checked the cover, not the rest of the book. Sarah switched covers earlier. If he had checked the rest of the book he would have figured it out.

[Lady JJ]

Easter Egg-Chapter 9 (probably 8 as well)
To the immediate right of the Thundermeadow Range Mana Stream Portal is a stairway that leads to a cave. The skeleton in that cave gives you an air block potion, and, just like the Energizer Bunny, it keeps giving and giving and giving and...

I had a Handbook of Buffs, but when I read it sometime in Chapters 1-5, it disappeared from my inventory. Then it showed up again in Chapter 7 when all the items were returned. But, when I read it again, it disappeared again. Is the book perhaps mistakenly marked as consumable? The Book of Status Ailments doesn't disappear. I did go back to an earlier save in Thundermeadow Beach, read the book, and sure enough, it disappeared.