Littlebro's comment about the Memories section

[Indinera]

On a separate note – I wonder if you would get more feedback if this format were ‘looser’, less detailed. I remember reading several posts from people who said things like: my English isn’t good enough to answer all those questions; it takes a lot of time; I don’t have opinions on all the questions, so I can’t answer it; comments like that.

First, thanks a lot for taking the time to fill it up.
I do agree I'd probably get more feedback but originally the Memories section was created for me to get feedback on specific points I deem of importance. So that makes me unsure about dropping the format.
Maybe there could be another post for general feedback? Something, as you said, "looser" and more open?

PS: good catch on the typo (now fixed).
Oh you!!!!

[darkange]

Since littlebro is doing the proof reading ... does that meaning he always knows the entire story before the game is released ?

[littlebro]

Hmm, the answer is both yes and no.

When proofreading I don't have the story in sequence, I have them in map/event sequence. That means that very often I am reading disconnected pieces and cannot be sure whereabouts in the game this dialogue is happening. This can make it very confusing.

Also a lot of story is, in fact, visual. Take the computer chip 'reveal' towards the end of the game. If you haven't got to that bit yet, this might not make much sense, if you have you will know exactly what I am talking about. Because that was almost exclusively visual, with very little dialogue, I didn't know what was happening at that point. Nor could I know the actual ending, which was entirely visual, including the bit that happens after the credits. Even ordinary dialogues - if you don't know the context, you miss some at least of the significance. Nor do you have the cumulative impact of following everything in the right order, in the right place with the right visuals.

So you see, I am missing quite a lot. But on the other hand, I do know the broad outline. For me part of the fun of playing one of these games is getting to see how it all hangs together. I am also, at that point, still doing proofreading because sometimes when you see a dialogue actually in the game, you realise the precise meaning is not what you thought. For example, without knowing the context it can be difficult to know if it should be 'this' or 'that'; 'here' or 'there', sometimes it can be more complex than that, but you get the point. Which reminds me, I've got a couple of corrections I need to send Indy.

Hope this makes sense.

[Indinera]

Very good reply.

[Cassiopeia]

First, thanks a lot for taking the time to fill it up.
I do agree I'd probably get more feedback but originally the Memories section was created for me to get feedback on specific points I deem of importance. So that makes me unsure about dropping the format.
Maybe there could be another post for general feedback? Something, as you said, "looser" and more open?

My personal two cents on this: I totally agree with littlebro. I completely stopped filling out the memories, because even if the questions might refer to what you consider important, for me they never nail what I actually want to say or tell other players about the game. Filling out this questionary takes more time than you might be aware of (at least for me when I really think about the questions and try to answer them the best I can), and for me it's just not really worth the effort.
Also, quite honestly, it always disturbed me that there's a question about the strongest side of a game, but never the weakest.
Not that I mostly want to complain in those memories - most games I love anyway. But there's often something that bothers me in a game, and in order to improve things in future games (or maybe even current ones), I think it would make sense to hear constructive criticism from the players as well.

[Indinera]

I completely stopped filling out the memories, because even if the questions might refer to what you consider important, for me they never nail what I actually want to say or tell other players about the game. Filling out this questionary takes more time than you might be aware of (at least for me when I really think about the questions and try to answer them the best I can), and for me it's just not really worth the effort.

But in that case there is always the possibility to start a new thread and give the feedback exactly how you want?

Also, quite honestly, it always disturbed me that there's a question about the strongest side of a game, but never the weakest.
Not that I mostly want to complain in those memories - most games I love anyway. But there's often something that bothers me in a game, and in order to improve things in future games (or maybe even current ones), I think it would make sense to hear constructive criticism from the players as well.

It's not the purpose of the Memories though. Originally it was intended as the "good memories" a game left you.
Criticism if any should be done in other topics not in the Memories. Not that you can't comment on smth you didn't like anyway, but my questions aren't oriented towards this aspect.

[Cassiopeia]

But in that case there is always the possibility to start a new thread and give the feedback exactly how you want?

I'm kind of hesitant starting threads only to enlighten the world with my not so important opinions.

It's not the purpose of the Memories though. Originally it was intended as the "good memories" a game left you.

Well, but the moment you ask any question, there's a chance that it will bring up not so good memories. Like if one of the characters you ask about only got on my nerves, or if I hated the dialogs or music or whatever.

Criticism if any should be done in other topics not in the Memories. Not that you can't comment on smth you didn't like anyway, but my questions aren't oriented towards this aspect.

That's not obvious though because as I said, memories can be good or bad. So maybe the thread should be called "Good Memories" then.
To me it just doesn't really make sense to limit a thread to only one side of the medal. But as I said - my opinion is certainly not the most important one, so .....

[Indinera]

Well, but the moment you ask any question, there's a chance that it will bring up not so good memories. Like if one of the characters you ask about only got on my nerves, or if I hated the dialogs or music or whatever.

Then I guess you should say so. Hopefully overall you would have enjoyed the game... a character getting on your nerves is not necessarily a bad thing btw. Maybe it's just supposed to be like this xD

That's not obvious though because as I said, memories can be good or bad. So maybe the thread should be called "Good Memories" then.

It was always implied in my mind although sure, technically someone could have dreadful memories of a game.
When I first came up with Memories my idea was to have a thread about people's impressions of the many aspects of a game (hence the many questions). Most questions are open: what did you think of this or that. If someone would hate the title screen or the music or a character they could say so. So I don't think it's as controlling as you make it to be... but if someone has hated the game overall then yeah maybe the Memories is not the ideal place to talk about it.

[Cassiopeia]

Then I guess you should say so. Hopefully overall you would have enjoyed the game...

As I said, for the most part I usually do and the overall experience is great. I love your games, you know that much.
But since you and I have very different opinions in many things, there's often something that bothers me. I usually voice these things in whatever thread they might fit in anyway, but other people might not.
So when there's a section on the board where you can talk about your impressions of a game, I'm just saying it would make sense for me to talk about every aspect. And for the most part it will be positive feedback, with maybe a little minus here or there that for me would be important to say as well.

Most questions are open: what did you think of this or that. If someone would hate the title screen or the music or a character they could say so. So I don't think it's as controlling as you make it to be... but if someone has hated the game overall then yeah maybe the Memories is not the ideal place to talk about it.

I understand that you put a lot of effort into every single aspect of a game, like title screen, music, dialogs ... and that you want to be reassured that people like what you come up with. So it makes sense to ask about these things, but just in fewer questions. It REALLY takes a lot of time to work through all of them (I don't think even littlebro does it in 5 minutes). And the questions are open only in the matter that people can say "great" or "awful" (so to speak), but are still limited to the things you ask about.
Anyway, gotta run. For myself I can only repeat what I said before - I'd rather skip that kind of questionary and voice my opinion here and there instead.

[Indinera]

As I said, for the most part I usually do and the overall experience is great. I love your games, you know that much.
But since you and I have very different opinions in many things, there's often something that bothers me. I usually voice these things in whatever thread they might fit in anyway, but other people might not.
So when there's a section on the board where you can talk about your impressions of a game, I'm just saying it would make sense for me to talk about every aspect. And for the most part it will be positive feedback, with maybe a little minus here or there that for me would be important to say as well.

But lets have a look at the questions.

Your opinion about Pristine?
Your opinion about Josef?
Your opinion about Mathilde?
Your opinion about Switch?
Your opinion about Pixie?
Your opinion about the story and dialogues?
Your opinion about the graphics and overall visuals?
Your opinion about the soundtrack?
Your opinion about the overall atmosphere?
Your opinion about the characters' artworks?
Your opinion about the game's title screen and music?
What was your favorite moment and why?
How did you like the ending?
Any twist you particularly enjoyed?
What's the game's best/strongest sides?

The first 11 are completely open for you to say whatever you want.
The "favorite moment" one... obviously it'd be a bit silly for me to ask anyone their least favorite moment.
"How did you like the ending" is also pretty much open to anything you want to say.
"any twist..." is a bit like "favorite moment", basically.
Then the final question is indeed orientated and that's basically the only one. I think it would be out of place to ask in this series of questions "what are the game's worst/weakest sides"... first of all I always hope there aren't any particular weak side and what do I get from it trying to have people think about this? If anyone hated something I'm pretty sure they'll just open a thread about it, or post in the announcement thread, as it has happened in the past.
Speaking of that, the announcement thread is a much more logical place to post about negative than the Memories section... IMO...
But overall the set of question IS really pretty open. I'm interested in genuine opinions. That's why most of them start with "your opinion about..."
I understand it can take a bit of time to reply to all of it but it's still very little compared to the amount of time it takes to play and finish a game xD if you don't have any specific opinion on a given question, it's also perfectly fine to just say this.

I understand that you put a lot of effort into every single aspect of a game, like title screen, music, dialogs ... and that you want to be reassured that people like what you come up with.

Not really reassured. I'm just very curious about how my players felt about these aspects. Down the road it also gives me guidance about what works and what doesn't.

So it makes sense to ask about these things, but just in fewer questions. It REALLY takes a lot of time to work through all of them (I don't think even littlebro does it in 5 minutes). And the questions are open only in the matter that people can say "great" or "awful" (so to speak), but are still limited to the things you ask about.

But I do try to cover a lot of things (hence the many questions). True it's the things I care the most for, but it's a pretty big selection. If I've omitted something then the best thing to do is start a new thread about it.

Anyway, gotta run. For myself I can only repeat what I said before - I'd rather skip that kind of questionary and voice my opinion here and there instead.

Or in the announcement thread, many players do that.

[Cassiopeia]

I never said you should ask for negative opinions in every question. I was just talking about that one question about the strongest side.
Also, YOU said the memories were set up to be for "good memories" and I said that this is not obvious, exactly for the reason that you can answer almost every question positively or negatively.

first of all I always hope there aren't any particular weak side and what do I get from it trying to have people think about this?

You basically answered this yourself (and again, I'm only referring to the one question about the strongest side of a game, lacking the possible downsides):

Down the road it also gives me guidance about what works and what doesn't.

Speaking of that, the announcement thread is a much more logical place to post about negative than the Memories section... IMO...

I don't wanna be offensive in any way, but that sounds a bit like: praise here and don't spoil the place. It also contradicts your statement that the questions are so that people can say whatever they want.
And I don't really understand why it's logical to post negative comments in the announcement thread.

[Indinera]

It's more like, "post your memories if you liked the game". I don't see the point of keeping a "memory" of something you disliked anyway. And yeah it's not at all the goal of that specific thread, which I sometimes use for promotion purposes.

[darkange]

I wanted to add something : there are no good memories or bad memories - we give them meaning and it's subjective for every person - example : if somebody doesn't eat for a week - it might be a bad memory for somebody but for another person they might consider it purifying the body or getting stronger - entirely subjective .

Second : Cassi stop arguing with Indy and play the damn game lol

[Cassiopeia]

Second : Cassi stop arguing with Indy and play the damn game lol

Errrrr ...... ???????

[Indinera]

The second part of what he said isn't bad advice.