My thoughts on the game

[Cassiopeia]

I finished playing the game today and all afternoon I debated whether or not I should even bother posting this, but I do want to say a few things because I'm just so disappointed.
For the first time in history I really regret spending money on an Aldorlea game. Why I even bought it I don't know, because already through the demo I kept wondering if this is it. I guess I just expected it to get better, but it didn't.
This game is pretty much nothing but walk, fight and find the exit. There's absolutely nothing else to do. Nothing. No secrets to find, no tasks to solve, nothing. I'm not a fan of secret rooms, but in this game they might have made things a little more intresting at least. Make exploring more fun. But everything is so straight forward, it just got really boring for me.
Also, there's no way to influence the development of the characters (other than some permanent boosters) like in the past. For instance, deciding on what element to focus on, deciding what spell to get. Just something to make me feel like I'm not just running back and forth.
The final area was the worst of all. That was basically nothing but running around again, (only without the fighting for the most part), picking up the right item and talking to the right person in order to get the storyline to continue. Again just nothing to make the gameplay more interesting. Nothing to actually DO.
I just don't understand it. All games of the past had one thing in common: There was always something new. Something that we hadn't seen before, something creative. I can't see anything of that sort in this game.

Another thing is the fighting. I played on difficulty mode 1 and at first I thought that might have been a mistake because it was just too easy. But then in that jungle/meadow area it got so ridiculously hard compared to how it was before. From that point on there were monsters that took longer to go down than the final boss.

And there's one more disturbing thing that I and others have complained about in the past. It's gonna be just as fruitless, I'm afraid, but I want to mention it anyway: Why does there ALWAYS have to be a half naked woman with ridiculous boobs? Pristine in her bikini - or I should rather say her "NOT-bikini" - sorry, but that drawing is just ugly when it could be really beautiful, because the artist is obviously very talented. But the way it is it's just not.
Something like this might be great for certain men, but I'm sure not for all, and definitely not for most women, as posts of the past prove. The fact that there's not a single game without something like this gives me more and more the impression that the games are more designed to be liked by men anyway, like I feel that the opinions of men are more appreciated as well.

Now I'd also like to address the story, but that includes spoilers, so whoever wants to play the game might not want to read the rest of this post.

Spoiler: show

Players were saying that the story is so good. I don't know, I can't see this. Firstly, the idea is neither new nor original: People create AI and it turns out to be bad. We've seen that before more than once.
Also, at least for me nothing in this story came as a surprise. Since the first remark about Pristine and how she was "supposed" to be a certain way (I don't remember what exactly it was) it was totally obvious that she was not a real human being, but that she had been created. I wasn't sure if she had been "improved" - like Captain America maybe - or if she was a robot. But it had to be one of the two. And it was also clear that she was not really a nice sweet girl.
Apart from that, the whole story is missing so much. There's no real explanation on what actually happened to the base and why they needed to escape. No explanaion on what happened to the world at all. Why did they even create Pristine?
Also, it gets confusingly contradictive when Mathilde keeps talking about using a radio to reach out to people, but later, like when they're finding stuff, they keep wondering how it got there. As though it was obvious that for ages no human being could have been there. Like Josef keeps talking about ancient civilisations. So on the one hand they act like it's impossible that there are people out there, but on the other hand they even talk about reaching a town. I never really knew what to think. Am I in an empty, destroyed world or is just the place they are at abandoned?
And when the game was over I hadn't learned anything at all. The only thing that was revealed was that Pristine is a robot - which, as I said, was no surprise. But other than that nothing at all was explained.
The finale itself (the whole volcano-dragon-thing) was totally far-fetched. It seemed to me like there had to be some final boss. But why a dragon that had nothing at all to do with the story? The characters were running around again, trying to figure out why the beach was on fire. Then they climb up that cliff and someone says "The dragon is up there". What dragon? No dragon had been mentioned before, and yet they act like it was totally normal that there's one there.
It would have made way more sense having to fight Pristine for the finale. Maybe she could have been injured already because Josef was fighting her before she killed him. That would have been a way to make it logical that Mathilde even stood a chance. And a final fight one vs one - that would have been something different for sure!
But a random dragon that came out of nowhere? It just didn't make any sense to me.

Okay, that's it.
It's gonna be interesting to see if there will be others who agree with me on some points.
Thanks for taking the time to read this.

[AuntIggy]

Thanks for your input. Quite honestly I couldn't get past the first couple of minutes in the demo before I was done with the game. I knew immediately I wouldn't spend 18 dollars. Sorry indy but if I buy something at the store and I don't like it or its not the quality I expect I can take it back with no backlash and get a refund or credit. im not saying you should give credits or refunds but you should really listen to the people that support and buy your games whether or not their "memories" are good or bad and not justify or rationalize or discount someone because of their sex or for any reason really.
And I know for certain if I buy something from online I look for all reviews, not just good ones. If all I ever found were good ones I wouldn't trust the store. Nobody or nothing is that perfect though there are items that get 5 stars because they are exceptional but that to me is really random.
I don't know whats happened here. Laxius and Millenium and all the older games had depth and characters and to me were exceptional games but now it seems that the more recent games are produced quickly and in the attempt of getting a certain number of games out yearly for monetary reasons. None of the more recent games have been able to capture and keep my attention. And I will say it again. I like a good storyline but not a ton of dialogue. When I buy a game that's what I want is a game. If I wanted a bunch of dialogue I would rent a movie. When I have to read more than I play it just really annoys me and I stop playing. Others enjoy this so that's ok. I'm just saying here what I don't like in case others are like me.

[Indinera]

It's not like Laxius and Millennium, and it's not advertised as such.
Personally I think the story was among my best, and I thought it was original and the dialogues were well made.
If you didn't like it, yeah, there was less to "rely" on.

Spoiler: show

I also hope not everyone catches immediately on the "hints" provided about the real id of Pristine. From a writer's perspective, it's hard to guess how much is too much...

My last game that was "vintage Aldorlea" was Little Hearts, which isn't too long ago tbh. Maybe I'll make another one soon (in 2020), and maybe you'll both like it more, but sometimes I want to try and explore new concepts/formats too.

[Cassiopeia]

Oh, hi there Iggy!
I agree on the dialogs. It’s really a lot of reading. I LOVE reading, but books. In a game I want to play, so how good the dialogs are I can’t really tell, because I’m never reading them carefully. I just fly over them so I get the idea of what’s going on.
You, Indy, consider your long dialogs as one of your trademarks, which is fine with me because, as Iggy said, others enjoy it. For me personally it's too much.
The only thing I can say about your dialogs in general is this: I often don’t like the way people are talking with each other. There’s always at least one person that keeps bossing others around in a very rude way. And more often than not it’s a guy treating a woman like that. Two guys in this game even.
Plus, Mathilde’s constant “fucking this” and “fucking that” in this game really bothered me. It didn’t fit her character, in my opinion, no matter how upset she got with time. I didn’t want to read this. Another reason to just fly through the dialogs as much as I could.
That again is probably more destined to be liked by male players.

As for “vintage Aldorlea” – that’s not what I’m talking about, unless you consider quality of gameplay and creativity “vintage”.
Concepts and formats can change throughout time. As a matter of fact, they have to or you’d produce the same game over and over again. That’s a danger with this kind of games anyway, because due to material limitations, to some extent it IS always the same every time. A dungeon, a desert, a forest, a swamp, a cave …. the options here are not limitless.
But when I compare your older games, like LF, MM, TBOL, DS – they all have completely different concepts, and yet they all are soooo full of ideas!
What I’m trying to say – a game with nothing else to do but walk and fight, that’s not a new concept. That’s a lack of creativity and gameplay quality.
Especially when it’s such a short game that I easily finished in 9 hours although I spent at least 2 hours levelling up (also to collect meat) and I really took my time exploring.

[Indinera]

I meant that all the games you mention are more like traditional RPGs and this is a bit more like a movie. At least partly.
Long dialogues were always in my games, LF and MM are prime examples of this.

[darkange]

Got to say you kind of nailed this post Cassi ... now that I red everything you said carefully I kind of agree with some points I didn't realized before ... even about the spoiler part - your suggestion about the final battle made more sense to me too ... and odly enough I even agree with the big boobs and bikini comment - I used to like seeing sexy images as a guy ... not anymore - funny how people change.

About the games being made a lot for guys - well it's obvious since games are 95 % played by guys - especially more complicated ones like rpgs or mmorpgs - girls are just getting started to play games -there aren't that many - I am not taking into account silly facebook games like candy crush and stuff like that - I don't even consider those " real games " .

Think about your audience - if Indi was to produce make up - obviously the majority of the audience will be women - just like it is with romantic comedies movies - when you know your audience you kind of have to appeal to it if you want a lot of money and happy customers - if you don't care about that ... then that's another story lol .

The only part where I don't agree with your post is about the language - always love the real language - so bring it on and about the long dialogues - always loved them - the longer the better - I enjoy reading in games too .

[Madmar]

This game is not a replay for me. I have always replayed your games many times as they are complex and I seem to find something new every time. I found this game very linear and not your usual quality of play. This was not a favorite. I will look forward to your upcoming game.

[AuntIggy]

Hmmmm. I think some peoples thoughts on the game are hinging on the thoughts of mine and Cassie. My thoughts, as i will only speak for myself, aren't up for debate. they are valid whether or not they are good or bad or make the developer happy or angry. And i think, for a person who is looking for a game, to make an informed decision they should see both sides, not just all the happy hoo hoo good stuff that people write. Many people don't write the bad stuff cause then it becomes a debate topic and at that point their thoughts and feelings are totally negated.
I have been buying Indys games for ten years now though truthfully i have not bought many for the past couple of years, but if I think its good then i will say so and if there are things i don't like i will also say so. I also haven't commented much on the more recent games simply because for me there wasn't anything outstanding enough to comment on. But then there is this game. And i do feel it's necessary to voice my opinion. This game is a rip off at 18 dollars. It certainly isn't worth my hard earned money and I don't think its worth more than 10 dollars if that.
I am a 63 year old woman and to say there aren't many women who play these types of games or anything but candycrush is sexist. I know a lot of women from the different sites and forums and mmorp games i have played. I am not the exception either. I love Torchlight and Might and Magic and Baldurs Gate. Mostly older games as they aren't as realistic. I know that ten years ago there were a lot of women and older women on this site. we had teenagers, middle aged and seniors. So for me that isn't an excuse that these games are marketed mainly to men.
What irks me is that when a woman makes a comment that doesn't suit Indy he then starts arguing with them about their thoughts and feelings telling them where or why they are wrong to feel this way. This to me is typical male behavior, or i could say that, but it is also sexist. i know many men who respect women enough to listen to them. they might or might not agree but they don't negate how the person feels.
Im glad you think this is your best story to date. If i had bought this as a book and had it been marketed as a book i might agree with you and really it isn't the story that bothers me. its the massive amount of dialogue, especially when its filthy and uncalled for. When every game has the Bimbo with big boobs falling out. they can have big boobs but come on the only women i know that wear shirts, bras and swimsuits too small are s..... and Mariah Carey. If you simply must have foul language it can be done minimally and without the f word. not all of us live in that reality or want to. Believe it or not as there are many people who don't drink or smoke, or do drugs there are also many who don't cuss or not use the f word. That, GD and MF I absolutely abhore.
And you are saying to yourself, well then she doesn't need to buy or play the game. Well guess what? I didn't buy and i didn't play the entire game nor will I. But as a person who has spent a good deal of my hard earned money on many of indy's games and others and one who looks forward to the next one hoping for something decent reminiscent of the quality and quantity and depth of the past games i feel i have as much right as the next person to voice my thoughts and feelings, no matter how bad or good they are. Now i respected his wish not to post this in the other thread that he uses for marketing as he only wants people to see good. I get that. It's all about the money. But i do feel people should also have the opportunity to see negative reviews as well.

[darkange]

@AuntIggy while you do say valid things ... I think it's also a little bit exagerated mentioning that Indy just argues with every girl exhibiting typical male behaviour... that sounds far fetched.
Also I don't know about other online games but when you play dota 2 for example - a massive online game popular at the moment - you very rarely meet girls in games . I base my statements on facts that I saw .

Believe it or not as there are many people who don't drink or smoke, or do drugs there are also many who don't cuss or not use the f word. .

I wish that was true - in my country 70 % of people smoke ... of all ages or genre ... I can barelly find non smokers like me ... or people who don't drink like idiots ... I wish I was finding people of my age that are not desperate to drink/smoke or stay all night in clubs while doing absolutely nothing - but yet they call it partying - completely ridiculous to me.

[Cassiopeia]

@AuntIggy while you do say valid things ... I think it's also a little bit exagerated mentioning that Indy just argues with every girl exhibiting typical male behaviour... that sounds far fetched.

Well, I don't know if it's "typical male behavior". But it's true that opinions of guys are usually of greater value here. I know for sure that if it had been for instance littlebro or maybe Tomas who brought up criticism, the reaction would have been different. Taken more seriously at least. I've watched this a lot of times over the years, and not only when I myself was involved. It often bothered me, though I never said anything.

It's just frustrating. I've been part of this forum for 9 years now. I've bought almost all games and I've always been supportive. Here and elsewhere, as Indy knows very well.
And yet my opinion counts zero and never was worth more.
Taking criticism is never easy. Of course not. But when you create things for others, it's always a possibility, and then you have to deal with it in the right way. The decision to ignore the posters and just not say anything anymore certainly isn't.
As Iggy said - I paid money for this game, so I have the right to voice my honest opinion. I'm not doing this because I want to be mean or anything. I wouldn't have any reason for that. What I said is just what I think and I believe it's important to be said.
And I think it's not asked too much that my opinion at least gets acknowledged. But no, everything I say is being turned down and negated, and now that others have posted too, the thread is being ignored completely. I'm sorry, but I think that's just not the smartest way to handle this.

[Indinera]

This guy/girl thing is only in your imagination and you've only been taught to "see" it with popular trends.
I talk to everyone the same way and I certainly couldn't care less if the person is old, young, a woman or whatever. I've NEVER cared for these things, only actual content matters to me. Check out my original reply above, how in the world isn't it serious? It's what I'd say to anyone else.

I've made a couple of "different" games in the past and they were never very popular here. That's okay.
But sometimes I like to try new things. When a release is reminiscent of my early releases you'll generally be informed in the official thread, like I did with Witch Hunt back then, "fans of X or Y will surely enjoy that". I try to keep things as clear as possible. That and demos to judge for yourself, of course.
I want to add your opinion isn't worth zero or less than anyone else's. But if a game is meant to be different, you have to understand that, like I understand your right not to like it and prefer some of the older stuff.
I think I achieved with this game what I set to achieve: a focus on dialogues, cut scenes, atmosphere, graphics and sounds. I'm happy with how it turned out, I enjoyed making and completing it, but I also knew from the start it wasn't a new LF or MM, and not intended to be.

[Cassiopeia]

I'm not a product of any kind of trends, believe me. I make my own conclusions from what I see and have seen over the years.
I'm not saying your post wasn't serious. I'm saying I don't feel like my opinion and criticism is really being taken seriously. There's always something in your replies that makes me feel like not liking something is kind of my fault because I don't get it.
But how would I or anybody else know what you set out to achieve in a game? You said you try to keep things as clear as possible, but this, for instance ...

a focus on dialogues, cut scenes, atmosphere, graphics and sounds

... is not to be found in the announcement post.
If it was, I probably wouldn't have bought the game, because then I would have guessed that was is in the demo is all there is, and I wouldn't have expected more actual game play to come.
That said - yes, I do understand if a game is meant to be different - IF it is announced that way. But it doesn't say anywhere that the game is mostly story driven, like you just said in the other thread. It doesn't say it's kind of "like a movie".
If it was, then this whole thread wouldn't exist.

[Indinera]

I tried to convey it on the features list, from the announcement thread, which does focus on the aforementioned features. Plus the demo, which is very extensive.
Not liking smth is fine, everybody has different tastes and I'm aware more "traditionnal" RPGs do better here.

[Cassiopeia]

Not really. All it says is:

* Unique, innovative story with immersive dialogues - Indinera's signature!
* Great artworks, production values and atmospheric soundscape

Big dialogs is nothing unexpected and doesn't indicate a different kind of game. Neither does the second line. "Great production values" can basically mean everything and explains nothing.

Anyway, I think I said what I needed to say. No use beating a dead horse.

[Indinera]

Not really. All it says is:

* Unique, innovative story with immersive dialogues - Indinera's signature!
* Great artworks, production values and atmospheric soundscape

Big dialogs is nothing unexpected and doesn't indicate a different kind of game. Neither does the second line. "Great production values" can basically mean everything and explains nothing.

Anyway, I think I said what I needed to say. No use beating a dead horse.

You had the demo (which is very long, ironically possibly my longest ever) and the 8-hour length tag though to evaluate/guess the style of game.