Clarification on Guilds

[bobfarq]

I've tried looking through the posts of guilds but I've just left myself very confused. Could someone kindly explain the Guilds of Shadows and Guilds of God Slayers to me. I am playing second time round and never came across them first time round. I am in Forlani but cannot find this ticket to Hell, and who is this woman I am supposed to meet. And as for a Casino book I have never seen one offered. The innkeeper in Forlani only offers regular items herbs/potions etc. The other shopkeeper just sells weapons and armour. Can someone explain in simple language how you get to these two guilds?

[Lady JJ]

The Casino Book was sold by an NPC outside and to the left of the Telvani Inn.

The Ticket to Hell can only be obtained if you do things in a certain order.

- Guild of Shadows: You can buy a "Ticket to Hell" from the Forlani innkeeper. At Forlani village, after you get Wendala back, an NPC appears at the top right corner. She trades the Ticket for the guild map.
***Make sure to buy the ticket before you rescue Wendala, otherwise the map lady will not appear.

You can only get this quest if you completed Side Quest 12 in the Temple of Zanthra (saving Ellis and bringing her to her mother outside the temple). Buy the ticket, enter the Killer Pit, exit the Killer Pit to Forlani Outpost before finishing it (I don't think it matters if it's before or after you save Wendala , try both times, but definitely before you come to the final exit of the pit), talk to the NPC lady in the top right corner who will exchange it for a Mysterious Letter, open the Mysterious Letter and discover it's a map.

As for the Guild of Godslayers,

- Guild of God Slayers: Talk to someone at the Killer Pit ( it was before the level where you find Wendala ). From the starting screen in the Pit, go straight up and fall into the center hole, walk all the way down, on the left side room is a man, just talk to him and he gives you the map (moderator edit: unless you've slain 34+ bosses, in which case Louthros must have ~300 luck in order to get the map).
......
Moderator EDIT: fixed the info (OP cannot do it themselves)

It's unfortunate that lilac123 was never allowed to finish the Guild thread.

[bobfarq]

Thanks for that. That makes things much clearer. Went back to a save in Telvani village when I returned Fraser's crown but there was no NPC selling the Casino book, maybe it's only available on the first visit. Little confused by Ellis. I presumed she was one of the girls with Darlene and returned herself, I presume she is found separately. I don't remember finding Ellis on the first run through either. Is she difficult to find? So if you never return Ellis to Tamara you never get to the Guild of Shadows?

[Lady JJ]

Thanks for that. That makes things much clearer. Went back to a save in Telvani village when I returned Fraser's crown but there was no NPC selling the Casino book, maybe it's only available on the first visit. Little confused by Ellis. I presumed she was one of the girls with Darlene and returned herself, I presume she is found separately. I don't remember finding Ellis on the first run through either. Is she difficult to find? So if you never return Ellis to Tamara you never get to the Guild of Shadows?

I could be wrong about Tamara's connection to the Guild of Shadows. Here's why I think that's the case. When you get to the Guild, Tamara is there with her daughter Ellis and she says she's glad you got the map and she's glad to see you again. It kind of sounded like Tamara was responsible for sending the map to the innkeeper so you could get it and I doubt she would do that if you didn't save her daughter.

You enter Zanthra Temple through the sewers, but when you get to the main floor you can exit out the front door to the front courtyard. Tamara is a dark elf. Her daughter Ellis was kidnapped by the Order. She's desperately trying to save Ellis but she knows she's helpless against the Order. She asks Louthros to find Ellis and that is Side Quest 12. Ellis is in one of the coffins in the right wing with the NPC who has the Deluxe Slave Key. I assume inspecting that coffin without the quest doesn't do anything. You were able to send Wendala through the Iron Manor without the Casino Book? I'm impressed. I couldn't keep her alive without being equipped with it.

I got the Telvani NPC's confused. The one who sells the Casino Book is inside the Inn by the stairs. I think she's the innkeeper's wife. I think she should still have it. I hope I didn't set you back. Sorry.

[bobfarq]

Thanks once again. It's all clear now. I definitely interacted with the coffin, but I suspect not in the right order. I must have got the quest after I had been in the room with the coffin. It's awfully complicated, how do the other players work this this stuff out?

[Lady JJ]

Thanks once again. It's all clear now. I definitely interacted with the coffin, but I suspect not in the right order. I must have got the quest after I had been in the room with the coffin. It's awfully complicated, how do the other players work this this stuff out?

Trial and error and just what you've done- share information as to what did work and what didn't work. So someone is going to come here and read this thread and say, 'Yup. I'm going to tuck this information away for when I get to that part of the game.' Then, of course, there's always just sheer, dumb luck in getting all your ducks in order from the get go.

[bobfarq]

As for the Guild of Godslayers,

- Guild of God Slayers: Talk to someone at the Killer Pit ( it was before the level where you find Wendala ). From the starting screen in the Pit, go straight up and fall into the center hole, walk all the way down, on the left side room is a man, just talk to him and he gives you the map (moderator edit: unless you've slain 34+ bosses, in which case Louthros must have ~300 luck in order to get the map).
......
Moderator EDIT: fixed the info (OP cannot do it themselves)

It's unfortunate that lilac123 was never allowed to finish the Guild thread. [/quote]

I've got the shadow guild, but the god slayers is beyond me. The fellow who is supposed to give the map comments on how Louthros needs to slay bigger opponents, presumably this is a reference to the 34 plus boss requirement. I got Louthros luck beyond 300 with a fortune boost, but still he won't give up the map. What am I missing? Also cannot get back out of the middle hole. Where is the exit? Seems to me that 34 plus bosses by the time you get to the killer pit is a pretty stiff requirement. I have taken on all optional bosses and only got to 30.

[Lady JJ]

As for the Guild of Godslayers,
I've got the shadow guild, but the god slayers is beyond me. The fellow who is supposed to give the map comments on how Louthros needs to slay bigger opponents, presumably this is a reference to the 34 plus boss requirement. I got Louthros luck beyond 300 with a fortune boost, but still he won't give up the map. What am I missing? Also cannot get back out of the middle hole. Where is the exit? Seems to me that 34 plus bosses by the time you get to the killer pit is a pretty stiff requirement. I have taken on all optional bosses and only got to 30.

I just finished replaying that part and I couldn't get the map the first time I met him either. I think I had 32 bosses when I first met him and the Casino Book equipped and he still didn't offer it to me. I did get it later and this is how I did. Note that you are unable to return to this section after Wendala rejoins your party so make sure you return to him before then. My theory is that this is the base LUK stat and not the final stat you get with temporary boosts (Fortuna Boost), equipment, etc. Strip Louthros of everything and see what his base LUK stat is. If it's at least in the 280's, you've got a shot but you'll need to return.

Use the menu option <Exit Danger> to leave this area. Go down the left pit. This is the pit to saving Wendala. As a side note, the right pit has twin barrel mimics and you should hold off just now on attempting this battle unless you're really good.

Go down the left pit. Just keep playing the game as you normally would, fighting and exploring everything. Work your way from top to bottom, then along the lower horizontal path, you'll come to an NPC selling flails. Below her is the pit t the next level. Don't do that yet. Instead there are 2 more rooms to the right. In the first room, at the left lower end, is Secret Room 86. Secret Room 86 leads to Secret Room 87. Select Louthros and he gets a whopping +12 LUK. Yay! Have you reached 300 yet? Remember, that's base 300. If not, you should be close. Maybe another level will get you over the hump. If you're impatient, you could use one or more eggs or even Rose Pearls/Fortune Crystals, but I'd just keep playing and level naturally. I kept returning for the map, unsuccessfully, until the battle with a dinosaur in the Metal Maze, Tyrannosaurus I think. That's when I was finally able to convince the NPC to give me the map. I'm not sure whether it was all of these requirements, some of these requirements or even none of these requirements (and it's just based on a low percentage luck of a roll) that finally did the trick. I just know this is how I finally got it. Save your game before you go back so you can just save time by reloading if it hasn't worked yet. Also, I know Indy likes to make things hard by giving you either a one-shot opportunity (ouch!) or a 3 strikes and you're out opportunity, so if you're destined to fail after a certain number of attempts, by saving, visiting and then reloading if you've failed, you won't lock yourself out.

This did finally work for me. I'm hoping it will work for you. I can promise you he's not going away, so keep trying until that final battle with Wendala. If you haven't gotten it by then, I don't know what to say.

It is also possible that it is not just Louthros' luck alone that must reach that 300 mark. A later quest in the GodSlayer's guild requires an average of the 4 players stats (EXP and ATK) to be a certain minimum. So maybe this NPC is not looking at Louthros' base LUK but an average of all 3 players LUK. I didn't test that at the time because I didn't know about this future quest. Disregard/Disproved

All I know is the steps above got me the map, but not at the first meeting.

Let us know how it worked out for you. Good luck.

Edit-ConfirmationI restored an earlier save when I first entered the pit, hadn't done any exploration. I went immediately to Crawford. He gave me the 'too arrogant' speech. I stripped all 3 players so I'd know it had nothing to do with equipment. Base LUKs were Louthros 285, Sarah 197 (no wonder she's always the one being kidnapped!), Sandy 251. Interacted with Crawford again, same arrogant result. Used 3 Wyrm Eggs on Louthros to get his LUK to 304, I didn't do anything with Sarah or Sandy, and Crawford decided that I was powerful and determined enough to deserve the map and he gave it to me. I would still recommend waiting and leveling up naturally, though. I think I remember later in the game getting either a skill or an item that will allow Wyrm Eggs to level the entire party rather than just one individual.

[bobfarq]

Wow. That's an impressive answer. What was I saying about things being complicated. I have reloaded a few times to try various things, but am now back at the shrine. I will keep an eye on Louthros luck and see how it goes. I never thought of 'exit from danger' to get out of the pit - very clever. Thanks so much for the detailed answer.

[bobfarq]

I think I may understand this now. There may be other things but you need at least

Louthros - At least 300 basic luck
Party - At least 30 boss kills

If you have less than 30 bosses, you get the better monster speech. Even with 300+ luck.
If you have 30 - 33 bosses and 300 luck you get the worthy warrior speech and the map
If you have 34+ bosses you get the arrogant speech and need the casino book.

There may be some variations on this but the above does get you the map. Thanks so much for your help Lady JJ, would never have got the luck bit without your help.